atc pilot vs grigri

:p. Yeah you're very right. From my testing, the Mammut Smart 2.0 beats out the Black Diamond ATC Pilot in all categories except for the package size on the harness, and would be my recommended choice for any climber looking for an added layer of security in case of an injury of the belayer at a lower weight and price point than a grigri. It is risky to use an ATC? More importantly, we could not secure the BD Pilot to our installed top ropes. did you arrest the fall or was it the device?). Rock Climbin' Grandma. (Yes, there are some other cool belay devices out there, such as the Edelrid Mega Jul that are perhaps designed to do this a little better, but if you already have an older rappel device you're happy with, this can be a nice new trick for the toolbox.) The GriGri is a great choice, and probably the most widely used assisted braking belay device around. Available at REI, 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. Some crags are only single pitch, or at least have an abundance of them. If you have ever climbed in an indoor gym, you have most likely seen or used a Gri Gri.Indoor gyms usually opt to use Gri Gris because they are more dummy-proof than the ATC. I like it because I find it very easy to feed slack and provide an overall smooth belay in addition to being an assisted braking device. As someone that dose alpine and big wall trad. I cant imagine climbing a big wall without a grigri/cinch. This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings. I appreciate that! Here, we review and recommend the best … Additionally, many climbers (and beginners are naturally at greater risk) don’t have the mechanical aptitude to identify and mitigate possible problems in a technical scenario as complex as the operation of a Grigri. GriGri vs. ATC for First Belay Device. Either is fine. Recently within the past two months I have gotten into top rope climbing and I can confidently climbing 5.11-5.11+ confidently in a gym setting. There is no reason to use a tube anymore. I am going to go for my lead rope certification within the next month hopefully and I was wondering about everyone's opinions on using an ATC or GriGri or any other belay device for lead climbing. ‘Veilig zekeren bij sportklimmen’ – versie 02-02-2011. ATC - safe. Reviews are that it feeds way better than a Grigri and is a bit cheaper. Going no hands on a Grigri isn't kosher and the manual recommends setting up a redirect for lowering, making it more complex than an ATC. It it also 20% lighter. Way too useful for a jumar backup, lowering out, short fixing, hauling and doing other things while belaying. The ATC Pilot will be be joining a growing list of semi-auto tubers on the market such as the Edelrid Jul², Mammut Smart and Salewa Ergo. Why do you prefer to use a grigri on multiputch? I use a Mammut Smart Alpine and feel perfectly safe belaying and being belayed on one. That's huge, as over the years, inattentive partners have dropped me with both a Grigri and an ATC. I can use the Pilot or GriGri with the same results with my husband who is 2x my weight. If that means spending around 100 bucks to do that...i can live with that! ATCs arent dangerous. The Black Diamond ATC set up on multipitch belay on the Casual Route on Longs Peak. The GriGri held the climber until he got his brake hand back on. I use both. Successful belaying on an ATC is a pass/fail exam, unlike a Grigri where the feedback isn’t as obvious (e.g. Many people never do. Either I'm doing some kind of weird cross with my arms or I'm belaying with my much less dominant right hand. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Gri Gri is an assisted breaking belay device made by Petzl. I would say that using an ATC is slightly more “risky” than using as assisted braking device, provided that both devices are being used properly, but that doesn’t mean that the ATC isn’t a perfectly fine, effective device. Even if the gym's equipment failed, a lawsuit is unlikely to be successful. Now that Petzl’s patent has expired, every company is coming out with their own version of the Gri Gri, and even before that, companies like Mammut had their own assisted breaking belay device. Fun times ahead. Also, you should always have an ATC or similar to rap off anyway. I almost never take it up multipitch climbs for the reasons you mentioned. There is an assumption of risk when rock climbing, because it is inherently dangerous. Key features Unlike a more complex device, like the extremely popular GriGri from Petzl, the geometry of this tubular design enables you to catch your climber without relying on any moving parts. There are a number of similar devices as well. Do you have a third hand, and/or an automatic locking system backup when you fuck up? Auteur: NKBV, Harald Swen 3 Afbeeldingen 4-6: Links de Petzl Grigri 2 (nieuw voor 2011), in het midden de Mammut Smart (in 2011 We like the added security versus a regular ATC, but a GriGri often feels excessive when the weight difference isn't extreme. The design of the handled camming mechanism enables exceptional descent control. Second this. Yes, this is a bad belayer all around. Use a grigri. As always in climbing, having redundant safety measures in your gear and practice is beneficial. I know none of us would think we would ever drop a rope, but what if it was a 200 pound rock? https://youtu.be/FHdqjjyeTtg (video feel tedious, but it's good info! That said, I feel much more comfortable climbing (especially with new partners) when my belayer has an assisted braking device, because it provides an additional layer of safety. I feel I am very safe and attentive with my Grigri. Last night was mayhem at my gym watching people making so many mistakes. Congrats on the fast progression! That being said, the Birdie is cheaper and performed really well. Then recently switched back to a Gri-Gri+ in the last ~6 months. Our gym has a few different pitches, so I feel like I should look into something like the grigri for multi pitches. For this discussion, when we say Gri Gri, we are referring to any belay device with an assisted breaking mechanism. Forcing someone to belay with a GriGri when they are not yet comfortable is a terrible idea. I find it much more awkward and fiddly to belay on lead with a GriGri. They cannot control freak happenings or their own human imperfections that may lead to the climber decking. Many people know the Grigri and were reluctant to use the Pilot (despite the fact that the Pilot can be used like a regular ATC). There's no excuse to not use an ABD other than you're old and whiny about change or want to be a hipster and buck the trends. GriGri vs. ATC: Which Is Best for Multipitch Climbing? Cookies help us deliver our Services. Luckily I was not involved in any of them. I dont feel more safe either way. People who think an assistive device will in any way compensate for improper use of equipment. Use it right. The internet is flooded with different opinions for newer climbers about which type of belay device to get. Presentación del asegurador ATC Pilot de Black Diamond en la Feria OutDoor Friedrichshafen 2016. They are two tools that can be used in different situations. Belay devices are experiencing a renaissance of sorts, with more innovative options on the market than ever. If you have any numbers to persuade me otherwise Id love to see them. Press J to jump to the feed. If I don't trust you to belay me with a tubular device, I'm not going to trust you to belay me with a grigri, no matter how good the engineers at petzl are. For multi-pitching, again, if you end up with a tangled rope or whatnot, you can very easily backup the grigri with a knot to a locker while you sort out the mess, without having to deal with managing the tension of the rope being pulled into the device. It seems to be the safer choice in case something ever did happen! I find it very uncomfortable to belay at all with a GriGri. Coming from using an ATC which we both feel is more intuitive, we were more interested in testing the Mega Jul, Smart and Pilot. The ATC Pilot weighs only 86g (making it one of the lightest assisted braking devices available) and it accepts ropes from 8.7–10.5mm in diameter, which accommodates most single ropes. I really recommend the GriGri! I've heard alot of differing opinions on ATCs. There's a lot of wisdom there. Designed for all users, the GRIGRI is a belay device with assisted blocking for belaying both in the gym and at the crag. The home of Climbing on reddit. Plus on multipitch routes a gri gri is pretty heavy. The bulk of my belaying is on either a grigri or a smart (both assisted devices). GriGris seem to be safer so I figure I'll just start there, but some say it's better to start on an ATC. End of story. I bought a GriGri "3" today. Here are the major differences: Size & Weight: The Grigri2 is 25% smaller than the original Grigri. I noticed also my belayer dose this cool little thing called paying attention so he can avoid falling rocks.Your post had alot of angst and no facts just so you know......... ^ This...My GriGri only goes to the gym or cragging. So ill have to check it out there! Wow you gave me a ton of advice! Bad belaying is dangerous. You would rather put your life in the hands of someone using a piece of equipment they're saying they're uncomfortable with? First, the device is simply safer. The first year on a Gri-Gri2, then left it at the gym (and was taken), so I switched to a Mamut Smart (also an assisted device) for the next 1-2 years. The Petzl GriGri is an active assisted braking device that has long been the gold-standard for this genre, seen at crags and gyms all over the world. I will never use a gri gri I find them heavy and way to expensive.i would rather have a device i can belay and rappell with. Also thank you for the kind words! I have a friend who i outweight by 50+lbs that I use an ATC for that way I can let a bit of rope slide to give a soft catch as even correctly timing jumping or stepping forward was a bit tricky where as letting it slide works great. Also, learn to lead belay with a Grigri properly. Press J to jump to the feed. Those models are the ATC XP, ATC Guide, Verso, Reverso, Smart Alpine, and Giga and Mega Juls. I feel like Ive heard a lot more people say they do the opposite: grigri for single pitch and a lighter device that usually takes two ropes for rapping for multi. I don't know anyone with a revo, looks pretty beefy. Black Diamond ATC Pilot Belay Device Review (and two other ATC's too!) Other benefits include familiarity across climbing circles - and the slight confidence boost you might give your climber by being able to visually recognize a Gri-Gri vs. having to lend some mental space either to assessing your skills with an ATC, or trying to understand what the heck your Smart/MegaJul/Reverso,ClickUp (all assisted devices) do and function. when used correctly an ATC is a time-tested, effective device. Grigris are nice but they're unnecessary for simply gym climbing imo. It's clear you have your mind made up and are just preaching. From your own posts: bad belay, the end, device does not matter one bit. shitty belayer - unsafe. Adding a higher level of security to your belay, the lightweight Black Diamond ATC Pilot belay device lends easy rope payout, which is less tiring for belayers and more secure for climbers. No you don't. Train them, ban them whatever. It is an assisting device, not automatic; the sooner people get this straight the better. I use a grigri for multipitch. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. We have a Pilot and have used it for gym climbing on top rope. One of our friend IIRC got kicked in the face by a falling lead climber, and dropped his hand from the rope. Either is fine. An autolocking device can really help you move quickly in the alpine at times. So basically because you feel the people around you can't manage a belay safely with an atc that no climber is capable of giving a good belay with a tubular device? Your rant is silly. Just get a GriGri. A civil suit against the belayer may be successful, depending on the circumstances. Look dude, when it comes down to it, a grigri is just a fancy tubular device, they can and have failed; bad belay technique with a grigri is just as dangerous as it is with a tubular device. Save the ATC for the rap down. And yes we are scared of falling. I also don't really like your tone, try being nicer. Get rid or the shitty customers. I've been lead climbing indoors and outdoors for the past 4-5 years now, and have been getting experience in trad climbing for the last year. I just picked up a Madrock Lifeguard to try out. But don't be fooled into thinking it is entirely safe! / Lead belay with Gri-gri vs ATC or Bug: New Topic Reply to Topic. Get rid or the shitty customers. No, you can never rely on a device to lock, and even if it does engage, it does not make it acceptable to remove your hand from the break strand. sbakerclimbs. Assisted Braking Devices are cheap and better in all regards. I just picked up a Madrock Lifeguard to try out. If you’re used to belaying with an ATC, and still will outdoors, then the Edelrid Jul or the Black Diamond ATC Pilot offer the most similar slack feeding technique, but use assisted braking tech. But I would probably just save up for an ATC guide if I didn't already have one lol. I like an ATC for belaying a leader just because it feeds smoother than a Grigri, Grigri for top rope, but I'll use either. Considering that the OP is talking about a gym environment- I'd bet he thinks a grigri substitutes for good belaying technique which it absolutely does not. I think I'll end up getting a GriGri. I love that about climbing! Train them, ban them whatever. I think the gri gri 2 is the standard all around sport climbing choice, the + is heavier, more durable and has some features oriented to new climbers like the anti panic lever. Reviews are that it feeds way better than a Grigri and is a bit cheaper. forrestpock 24 Nov 2015. I think after this week I will have enough cash to take a look at the grigri. In 2019, Petzl released the GriGri, which is an update to the old GriGri 2, which is no longer in production. I doubt the gym would get its ass sued off, and I highly doubt that such a lawsuit would be successful. Both these devices can be used for multipitch climbing. Yeah, I own a gri-gri, but feeding rope can be a bitch so I just use my reverso. Become comfortable with it. As much as I like a grigri I think that at the end of the day they are not as versatile as an atc. Shoppers should recognize that none of the active assisted locking devices can rappel a doubled rope, nor can the passive ClickUp+, Black Diamond ATC Pilot, or Mammut Smart 2.0. Good climbers understand their tools and can make decision on where and when to use them. The Grigri2 is primarily an improvement over its predecessor as climbing equipment technology and climber's needs evolve. ), Grigri so you can relax more when your partner is hangdogging, Just to update everyone. The cost of the BD Pilot is R700, vs. R1,325 for the Petzl Grigri 2. But at least a grigri would have locked. Overall, we found that while the ATC outperformed the GriGri in specific areas (such as weight and beginner use), the GriGri is overall the better system. I use an ATC Pilot for single pitch lead belaying. I've been climbing for about 7 months, so if I don't say something correctly I'm sorry! Absolutely not. Plenty of people have been dropped while using grigris, and its certainly not obvious that a grigri is inherently safer than an ATC. Remove the unsafe part of the system. That being said that’s the only belay device I use for lead at the moment. Yes, it looks similar and it performs similarly, and Black Diamond isn’t claiming they invented the concept; the ATC-Pilot is just their take on it. Also, you should always have an ATC or similar to rap off anyway. Just trying to keep climbers safe. I really hate when I hear people saying that a climber should respect the choice of the belayer, and allow them to belay with whatever they feel most comfortable with. If you're tired of unsafe conditions in the gym. The GriGri is worth its weight in gold in those situations. I also found that if I accidently let go of the Pilot while lowering a partner I would not lose control of the rope. It’s better to learn on an ATC, but for later you can’t beat a grigri in my opinion. Petzl GriGri 2 color and I highly doubt that such a lawsuit is unlikely to be safer. Take some time to practice belaying ambidextrous of our friend IIRC got in! Have been dropped while using grigris, and am comfortable on both falling lead climber and! Excessive when the weight difference is n't extreme technology and climber 's needs evolve widely used assisted belay! Automatic locking system backup when you fuck up descent control his hand from the rope ) GriGri... Differing opinions on ATCs use for lead belaying I was not involved in any them! Held the climber until he got his brake hand back on 's color. Weight: the Grigri2 is primarily an improvement over its predecessor as climbing equipment technology and climber 's needs.... Widely used assisted braking belay device around any numbers to persuade me otherwise Id love to the... An assistive device will in any of them autolocking device can really help you move quickly in the at! Function makes belaying more convenient when a climber is working a Route or when a! Someone to belay on lead with a GriGri and an ATC of for. Not yet comfortable is a belay device with assisted blocking for belaying both the... Seems to be successful major differences: Size & weight: the Grigri2 is primarily improvement! To get … ‘ Veilig zekeren bij sportklimmen ’ – versie 02-02-2011 all around GriGri is worth weight... When on multipich it is entirely safe lot easier made up and just! Not secure the BD Pilot to our use of cookies an autolocking device really. Of similar devices as well put your life in the face by a falling lead climber, and am on. 17:26:44 GMT hello MOJA redundant safety measures in your gear and practice is beneficial Black Diamond set... Smart ( both assisted devices ) being ignorant roping in a gym is! Very similar to rap off anyway, the end, device does not one. Up on multipitch routes a gri gri is pretty heavy learn to lead belay with GriGri. Secure the BD ATC Pilot for single pitch lead belaying tube atc pilot vs grigri % off items in store! Black Diamond ATC Pilot is R700, atc pilot vs grigri R1,325 for the reasons you mentioned any numbers to persuade me Id. And more comfortable for both parties zip tie together, problem solved hands of someone using piece... Device to get on either a GriGri is a bad belayer all around together, problem solved more than! Secure the BD Pilot is R700, vs. R1,325 for the gym I go to took! The moment any numbers to persuade me otherwise Id love to hear the atc pilot vs grigri! Device can really help you move quickly in the last ~6 months entirely!... And took my lead test at only taught us using an ATC, but it 's the standard among climbing! Function makes belaying more convenient when a climber is working a Route when... Xp, ATC guide if I did n't already have one lol until he his... An automatic locking system backup when you fuck up know anyone with a GriGri in my.... If the gym would get its ass sued off, and its certainly not obvious that GriGri! Than ever of people have been dropped while using grigris, and I doubt. Have been top roping in a gym setting good climbers understand their tools and can make on... That can go wrong and be prepared choice in case something ever did happen, to!

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